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This paper has two parts. The first is concerned with a variant of a family of games introduced by Holy and Schlicht, that we call Welch games. Player II having a winning strategy in the Welch game of length [Formula: see text] on [Formula: see text] is equivalent to weak compactness. Winning the game of length [Formula: see text] is equivalent to [Formula: see text] being measurable. We show that for games of intermediate length [Formula: see text], II winning implies the existence of precipitous ideals with [Formula: see text]-closed, [Formula: see text]-dense trees. The second part shows the first is not vacuous. For each [Formula: see text] between [Formula: see text] and [Formula: see text], it gives a model where II wins the games of length [Formula: see text], but not [Formula: see text]. The technique also gives models where for all [Formula: see text] there are [Formula: see text]-complete, normal, [Formula: see text]-distributive ideals having dense sets that are [Formula: see text]-closed, but not [Formula: see text]-closed. 

Abstract In 1932, von Neumann proposed classifying the statistical behavior of differentiable systems. Joint work of B. Weiss and the author proved that the classification problem is complete analytic. Based on techniques in that proof, one is able to show that the collection of recursive diffeomorphisms of the 2-torus that are isomorphic to their inverses is $$\Pi ^0_1$$ -hard via a computable 1-1 reduction. As a corollary there is a diffeomorphism that is isomorphic to its inverse if and only if the Riemann Hypothesis holds, a different one that is isomorphic to its inverse if and only if Goldbach’s conjecture holds and so forth. Applying the reduction to the $$\Pi ^0_1$$ -sentence expressing “ZFC is consistent” gives a diffeomorphism T of the 2-torus such that the question of whether $$T\cong T^{-1}$$ is independent of ZFC.